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And one conversation we typically have with little companies is whether they are all set to take on dealing with the federal government as it is an unique consumer and this is just contributing to the discussion that they are not all set, which is a cost to the government (GSA SER).

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TAKAI. Thank you. I yield back. Chairman HANNA. Mr. Horan-- Hardy? Excuse me. Mr. HARDY. Thank you. I excuse being late. Mr. Stanford, in your testimony, you had talked about Amazon as an example of how the GSA-- and I hope someone has actually not asked this question already-- would place the problem on specialists and report agreement information although the agency already has actually the data granted to the agreement.

Being a little company individual, I have had to deal with federal contracts prior to. It appears to me that this is simply another way of federal government trying to solve their problem rather than take care of the issues themselves that they have the information at their hands. Would you agree to that in rather of that style? I have a bit harder way of stating it, however that is-- Mr.

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Yes. And I think the chairman put it well. It is data that the government currently has, and it does seem counterproductive and there is agreement among the panel that this does not make any sense. And there truly-- in the industrial world, it really would not make good sense for the person who is serving as the platform to procure the goods, to then require to be told what those items and services cost.

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Does anyone believe that GSA has perhaps undervalued the genuine expense of what this is going to impact the services? Our members at the Union for Government Procurement, we conducted a study and I believe that is one of the biggest locations-- it is the biggest area of detach in between federal government and market on this particular guideline, the burden itself.

The concern goes to increasing costs for the taxpayer and for consumer companies who utilize GSA. Looking at it, we have actually addressed it in our written statement. But at the end of the day, based upon our estimates and our feedback from our members, and we performed a survey where we were going to attempt to use GSA's language that they used in the rule, in their formula to come up with the numbers based upon feedback from our members, it would cost over $800 million just to implement this guideline across the GSA Schedules program.

And at the same time, GSA indicated in the rule that it would be too expensive for the federal government or for it to adjust its systems. I think, if I recall, we were talking in the 10s of millions of dollars, and what they failed to, I believe, value, or to their credit, having a public conference and asking remark on it, they stopped working to understand or value the numerous countless dollars that it will cost market who take part in the GSA Schedules program to comply.

Being a service person, you know, I work on quotes. I was a general engineering contractor, so I put out bids. All your information that you have that may put you in the competitive movement, they are desiring us to supply that info, which they ask for line item quotes.

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HORAN. I agree. I think it is a substantial issue, and my clients have essentially generally voiced that concern. It is viewed, I think, in market as competitively sensitive details. The guideline is unclear on how it can be used, or more importantly, I think, how it will be secured.

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So I believe I can say that generally, industry is really concerned about that, that competitively delicate info will be out there for competitors to acquire. And I guess I would also include that this details could trigger harm if it is out there to professionals both in the industrial marketplace and the government marketplace since this type of pricing info would be valuable for business competitors.



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